tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1379841467307950298.post2947006855475058579..comments2023-05-17T04:59:04.113-05:00Comments on Balsbaugh7: I don't usually like to put my political cards on the table, but ...JPBhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06826067193555843647noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1379841467307950298.post-3987347360705741452008-10-31T01:22:00.000-05:002008-10-31T01:22:00.000-05:00Very interesting, my wife has just recently adopte...Very interesting, my wife has just recently adopted this position. After much wrestling and no good options, she felt comfortable. <BR/><BR/>I think she is actually "voting" her conscience, by not voting. <BR/><BR/>I feel that a discussion about what it actually means to be pro-life is long over due among well intentioned voting Christians. The more i think about the term pro-life, the more i am convinced that most of the people i see wearing this label and most of the arguments i hear would be more accurately labeled "anti-abortion", or more accurately "unconditional anti-abortion". I know it doesn't role of the tongue. But the rhetoric of "pro-life" politics is far too narrow for me to take them, or at least the term seriously. I am not trying to start any semantic arguments or to be controversial or glib. I find the right extremely hard to identify with anymore and others who share this skepticism might find not voting an alternative. If we concerned about being lazy, we could make "I didn't vote as a form of social protest" stickers to be industrious.<BR/><BR/>So much of what you all have said is true, particularly J.J.'s #1,2, 3. Sheila's point about actually doing something to change the world is straight to the point. I cringe when I think about how much time i have sat reading and thinking about politics (what time is it?). <BR/><BR/>One closing thought,<BR/>If spending money on campaigns is free speech, what are we saying? <BR/><BR/>Are we saying more with the simple action of not voting is interesting, but it does not have that subversive bite i am looking for.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12224841673992257752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1379841467307950298.post-38282937886150101992008-10-29T00:18:00.000-05:002008-10-29T00:18:00.000-05:00Like Sheila, I left the "presidential bubble" unfi...Like Sheila, I left the "presidential bubble" unfilled in the last election because I didn't feel I could support either candidate. I've done a lot of thinking about this issue (the Christian's interaction with and responsibility for engagement with politics, culture, etc.) without much resolution that I could state concretely. I agree with most of what you said. Here are some observations and questions I'll throw out for discussion. They are necessarily and unavoidably subjective, but here they are:<BR/><BR/>1. In my experience, Christians take too many cues from <I>non</I>-Christian talking heads. What I mean by this is that the issues over which elections are decided in the minds of many Christians is too narrow and does not include all of the issues Jesus would be interested in. So if you're going to pick "your" issues, who will you listen to?<BR/><BR/>2. In my experience, Christians are too quick to name "God's man" (or woman). What exactly is Jesus' position on taxation? Immigration? War?<BR/><BR/>3. In my experience, Christians are not skeptical enough and place far too much confidence in the political system.<BR/><BR/>4. Can the church really tell the government what rights it can give to it's citizens? What do you mean by "the church"? Which church?<BR/><BR/>5. You should read this: http://www.upper-register.com/blog/?p=237. Think about it. Really think about it.<BR/><BR/>I don't have this figured out. Most of the time, pondering these questions leads me to a tangled ball of confusion. I think you have to look at all of the issues and make the best decision you can. No decision you make is perfect, and you will not elect or even vote for the perfect candidate. After having done this, I think we need to take a deep breath and be kind (loving, even) to those brothers and sisters who have decided differently. Jesus is Lord. No matter who wins the election(s), Jesus is Lord.J.J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15795957441512669582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1379841467307950298.post-74493118858287407272008-10-27T12:26:00.000-05:002008-10-27T12:26:00.000-05:00Jen, do you have a hidden camera on my computer? T...Jen, do you have a hidden camera on my computer? That is too weird. <BR/><BR/>Sometimes if I am going to comment, proofreading does not happen. The sad thing is that I am starting to talk like that. hee hee.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16663647667275488323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1379841467307950298.post-49688026326541577532008-10-26T22:54:00.000-05:002008-10-26T22:54:00.000-05:00I think you'd better stop reading Abraham Piper's ...I think you'd better stop reading Abraham Piper's blog. Your blood pressure is going to rocket. ;) <BR/><BR/>No, but seriously, I don't think voting is a sacrament. I don't think that it communicates apathy. I think you're right in that there are some disordered priorities. <BR/><BR/>I don't think that people who vote for Obama are voting for the Freedom of Choice Act??? Did someone really say that? <BR/><BR/>"American for the Lord?" Ah, hell....anyways. <BR/><BR/>It was funny, that as I was reading through Piper's blog comments the "render to Caesar what is Caesar's..." quote came to me. <BR/><BR/>I'll have to think this out more, but for now, I think that Christians ought to exercise their right to vote, but....is it "Christian responsibility?"....I'm not sure. <BR/><BR/>I thought of this verse though:<BR/><BR/>Proverbs 31:9 <BR/>"Open your mouth, judge righteously,<BR/>defend the rights of the poor and needy."<BR/><BR/>Can we do this by voting? <BR/><BR/>I liked Abraham's Papa's thoughts on voting that I read in a recent Desiring God e-mail. <BR/><BR/>http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/TasteAndSee/ByDate/2008/3347_Let_Christians_Vote_As_Though_They_Were_Not_Voting/<BR/><BR/>Vote as though you were not voting....<BR/><BR/>What do you think of it?Eyes_Wide_Openhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300956088613437270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1379841467307950298.post-31151618957132874722008-10-26T21:07:00.000-05:002008-10-26T21:07:00.000-05:00Hey, Jodi, next time try typing when you're DONE n...Hey, Jodi, next time try typing when you're DONE nursing! :-)Just kidding, I do the same thing!Jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01730211127414274441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1379841467307950298.post-7303738701084929642008-10-26T20:43:00.000-05:002008-10-26T20:43:00.000-05:00We've has sever good political conversations aroun...We've has sever good political conversations around here lately and let's just say my political vies since the last election have changed significantly. <BR/><BR/>I believe that the church has placed her trust/responsibility in this "great republic" of ours rather than in Christ in the same way that many parents place their trust and responsibility on the schools to raise their children. The issues at hand such as abortion, immigration, welfare, etc, when addressed within the church often have a much different outlook under grace than when we are called up to debate and vote on them. Indeed, I find my "voting" record perhaps at conflict with my Christian reaction. (ie caring for illegal immigrants vs. voting on that issue). <BR/><BR/>CHristain service is NOT exercising a vote. It is service for CHrist to the last of these.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16663647667275488323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1379841467307950298.post-627760277552616492008-10-26T16:26:00.000-05:002008-10-26T16:26:00.000-05:00Personally, I am torn right now about whether or n...Personally, I am torn right now about whether or not to vote. I didn't vote in the last election, not because I didn't care, but because I did not feel I could support either candidate. As a side note, I feel frustrated when people put all of their passion into voting for whoever they think is the right candidate - and then do nothing else to change the world during the other eleven months of the year. I do think it can be important, since we live within this political structure, to make our voices heard there, but it's going to take each of us *doing* something, not just *voting* for *others* to do something, to change the world. I think the world is being changed not so much by Washington, D.C. as by Allendale and Southside Indianapolis ...Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10090633995801931518noreply@blogger.com