Thinking About ...



11 comments:

Mainely Me said...

So what exactly are you thinking about these segments of the movie?

The Six of Us said...

That is the movie I was trying to think of the other day as one I wanted to see.

Yeah...lots to think about in his little blurb to God.

The second video won't load. I am going to try again and further comment.

Janine the Bean said...

...sometimes he talks to the Lord and sometimes he yells at Him." I love that.

I think it's okay and even healthy to yell at the Lord sometimes. That's just me. I've felt like that before. Haven't we all? Okay Lord, I can't even tell if this is you or Satan causing causing this crap in my life...but I'm mad at you right now.

I just finished watching the second one as well. That's a pretty powerful scene. Repentance, forgiveness, hope of glory.

A struggling sinner can work in the lives of others...perhaps even more than a more "perfect" Christian.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

The Six of Us said...

...still can't load the first one. It is probably our computer.

I would have to disagree with you, Janine. Not trying to play the perfect Christian here and yes, I have felt that way, but there is a fine line between being open and honest in our prayers and humbly asking God to refine our weaknesses.

It must be remembered, when in those times, that God is in control of Satan and therefore controls his actions. A fact quite overlooked in this "Pentacostalish" movement. Weather or not it is Satan is irrelevant to what our reaction should be, and that is falling at the feet of Christ and clinging to His promise of our security in Him.

As tempting as it is and as "real" as it sounds, I am not sure there is a time or place to be angry at God. Again, I am not saying that I never have felt this way, but I hope through God's grace to reach the Spiritual maturity to trust his work in my life.

I got about 30 seconds into the other video and realized that he would look a lot less ridiculous if he were black and preaching like that. ;)

JPB said...

I've been thinking a lot about friendship with God. That was the subject of the conference I went to in South Bend.

And I think I would far rather be like Robert Duvall's character in the first scene than I would remain distant from him in my piety.

I will almost certainly post more on this, but one of the claims someone made at the conference was this: "That is on offer from God is friendship and a share in the family business."

Here's another way of putting it. I would rather have a friendship with Jesus that is close enough for him to have to correct me for being wrongly angry at him than never come close to that line and remain at a safe distance.

Or, similarly, I would rather have a friendship with the Father close enough that I could speak and mean the Psalmist's "My God, why have you forsake me?" than hide behind a theology of sovereignty that never allows me to utter such a thing.

Whenever I'm getting a little too snooty and careful with my "Christianity", I like to remember the character and audaciousness of those who were closest to God: Abraham, who haggled with him, Moses who dared to speak for hm, David who danced without reserve before him, Peter who rebuked him (and was in turn rebuked).

I also like to watch scenes from the Apostle, especially that last one, and ask myself ... "What would you do if you were there? Where do you find yourself in that scene? Critiquing his theology or praising God for a miracle of transformation in the young man's life?"

JPB said...

He's not a tame lion and he will not be tamed -- not even by our own wisdom.

The Six of Us said...

Very true, and I agree.

However...

Should it be a goal to be so "free with God" to allow ones self the right to become angry with Him?

I understand your point about rather being rebuked because of your closeness than remaining distant. But there is still a restraint and discipline that should happen.

For example...I do not practice the same restraint in my marriage as I would with "outsiders" because of the closeness we share. That said...I pray to be changed in my sinfulness with Josh in the ways I speak to him.

It is okay...because of grace...to be ourselves in the face of the Father and not drop dead. But I don't want to stay in a place where I question God. I don't know that that is the ideal.

Get me right...I DO understand what you are saying. And a certain amount of righteousness critiquing is healthy. But again, in getting closer with God, I desire to become more like Him...not more apt to blurt out my feelings.

I know what I am staying sounds "uppity" and "Christianese" but that is not what I am coming from.

Job was told to curse God and die and yet he never did.

The Six of Us said...

What I was trying to say (although I am not saying it well) is: I KNOW I am accepted before God as His loved child in my frustration and anger. But it is not something I am proud of. I can never be proud of being or feeling angry with God.

JPB said...

“There is a fine line between being open and honest in our prayers and humbly asking God to refine our weaknesses … Should it be a goal to be so “free with God” to allow ones self the right to become angry with Him?”

I don’t think this is about holding on to a ‘right’ or allowing oneself certain liberties or even about having a goal. It is about friendship. With your best friends, do you think about rights and liberties, or are you simply open before them and desire such simple openness from them? My aim is to become close enough friends with Jesus enough that I can converse with him as with such a friend.

Of course anger is not the right disposition to have towards a friend. But I maintain that it is better if one is angry to be angry and take it in friendship to our Lord and elder brother. I think, when said in the right spirit, there is always something of “I’m mad at you … and I know I really shouldn’t be” in this engagement. But if I take my emotional complaint to God in friendship, I think he will know how to deal with me. I don’t need to clean myself up emotionally when I sit down to take counsel with him any more than I need to clean myself up in other ways. He can take it and he can dish it out. He took it from Peter; he took it from Job; he can take it from me.

Because Job may not have cursed God, but he certainly came with a tone in his voice:

“Oh, that one might plead for a man with God, As a man pleads for his neighbor! … Oh, that I knew where I might find Him, That I might come to His seat!”

The tone of these and other statements are not far at all from, “I wish he was here so I could give him a piece of my mind!”

If he didn’t have this edge, why would Elihu (the most reliable of his friends) have said against Job, “For he adds rebellion to his sin; He claps his hands among us, And multiplies his words against God”?

And then God, in friendship and authority, gave him what he had coming to him. I expect him to do no less than me if I come to him emotionally out of line. But I think better that I come to him and let him deal with me. I want him to deal with me – the real him and the real me.

That said, I do think there’s a line that shouldn’t be crossed. I do think there is a raging against God or rebellion that is very different from emotion honesty, even extreme emotional honesty. That raging does not seek an encounter with God to have it out. That raging wants to have its say and be done. That’s a big difference.

As for Satan’s agency and whether or not Duvall should preach like a black man … well … I leave that for another time. :-)

Janine the Bean said...

I need to come back and read this all later. A lot has been said since last night. Will clarify what I said and expound on it another time. Busy weekend ahead.

The Six of Us said...

Very true about Job. I appreciated that.

And I do know the heart of what you are saying. I guess I have just so recently been in circles where their "Jesus is my friend" philosophies have been overstepped and have made Him out to be a buddy more than a holy Savior.

It comes down to the issues of the heart though, doesn't it? The difference between virtuous and self-righteous. The difference between friendship and irreverence. They hinge on the inward heart.

Yes? No?